LumberJocks

False Advertising

  • Advertise with us
Review by HGAlfrerd posted 04-19-2017 01:13 PM 2763 views 0 times favorited 31 comments Add to Favorites Watch
False Advertising False Advertising False Advertising Click the pictures to enlarge them

This incident is about “False advertising” and “using 1 HP inverter on a 1 ½ HP Motor” on the Grizzly G0632 wood lathe”.
09-30-14 I ordered a wood lathe (G0632) including various wood working accessories.
Once the lathe arrived and I had it assembled, I noticed that the inverter would cut-out frequently when operating the lathe. I called Grizzly and they shipped a replacement inverter. There was an issue with the first shipment of the inverter, as someone had picked the wrong item and instead of the inverter, I received an iron rod. Nevertheless, the second shipment contained the actual inverter.
Unfortunately the inverter was a Delta VFD 007S21A, which is listed as a 1 HP inverter and has a maximum output current of 4.2 A listed on the label. The Grizzly G0632 lathe on the other hand is running a 1 ½ HP motor which draws 4.7 A.
I then called Grizzly technical support and complained that the inverter, which they had shipped, was not appropriately sized for the G0632 lathe. Vince at Grizzly technical support then wrote back that: “What we were informed is that “Under-rating of VFD’s is a fairly common practice.” In another e-mail he then expanded: “The sizing of a VFD is determined by the amperage generated. The VFD that originally shipped on the lathe, and that you received for a replacement, is properly rated for the amperage generated, although it states 1HP. This has been confirmed by our engineer and Quality Control department.” And last not least, he even sent me (e-mail 12-04-14) an incorrect spec-sheet for the inverter, which listed a current rating of 5A for the VFD 007 inverter. The tag on the inverter, which I received as well as the current spec-sheets for the Delta VFD inverters show 4.2 A as the maximum current.
I find it very disturbing that a “technical expert” at Grizzly would make such a mistake and in the end still insist that the 1 HP inverter is sufficient for the 1 ½ HP motor.
Moreover the initial spec-sheet for the G0632 lathe had a 2 HP inverter listed on their own web-site (copy can be provided). After my current complaint, the web-site has been changed.
I understand that for many people a 1 HP lathe is more than sufficient, but I don’t accept that I purchase a 1 ½ HP lathe and specifically check for a sufficiently sized inverter, only to end up with an undersized inverter, which is now prone to break down rather sooner than later, leaving me with a substantial expense for a possible replacement part. By the way, I was told that the 1 HP inverter would cost between $700 and 800 when purchased from Grizzly, which is about 50% of the cost of the lathe. I am not looking forward to these kinds of very costly repairs only to end up with another undersized inverter, which probably is going to last only for a short time as well.

I have tried very hard to convince Vince at Grizzly technical support that they should honor their initial description of the inverter and send me the 2 HP version of the Delta VFD. That one is only slightly larger in its physical dimensions, but I would be happy to make the necessary accommodations for that as it is only a very thin sheet-metal box, covering the inverter, which needs to be changed. However, despite numerous e-mails I was unable to get this result and I now have to file the official complaint through BBB. Hopefully this step will convince the management at Grizzly to provide a better support for their customers in the future.
I see three possible solutions:
1. Send me the correctly sized (2 HP) inverter and assist me with possible programming of the inverter to make it work with the G0632 lathe.
I would also expect that Grizzly compensates me with a decent voucher (e.g. 15 % discount on any future purchase) for the trouble I had until now.
2. Grizzly makes a significant price deduction (somewhere close to the $700 or $800, which Grizzly charges for the replacement inverter) on my original purchase price and I will send back the old as well as the replacement inverter. I will then purchase the correctly sized inverter directly from Delta and only expect from Grizzly possibly help in case the inverter needs any special programming.
3. This is the least favorable option, but in case none of the previous solutions can be worked out, I insist on returning the entire purchase, which I placed 09-30-14 (order # 90113574). Grizzly would have to send sufficient packaging material, since I did not keep all of the original packaging and a suitable pick-up date/time would have to be arranged. Ideally Grizzly should send someone here to pick up all of the items.

Needless to say, but Grizzly did not provide the appropriate inverter and the lathe was returned.




View HGAlfrerd's profile

HGAlfrerd

9 posts in 243 days



31 comments so far

View mrg's profile

mrg

786 posts in 2840 days


#1 posted 04-19-2017 01:41 PM

So, what you get to replace this?

-- mrg

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

7466 posts in 2169 days


#2 posted 04-19-2017 03:09 PM

Given that they changed the ad when the discrepancy was brought to their attention, I think I’d call it “errant” advertising. The claim of “false” advertising would require “intent to deceive” in my book.

Not good that they screwed this up and their documentation led you to expect that you were getting something other than what you received. But that said, machinery manufacturers playing fast and loose with HP ratings is a practice as old as the hills. Case in point…. the use of the term “Developed HP”

Did they not give you the option to return the lathe for a full refund right out of the gate? Or did you have years of hard use on the lathe before you ever had any problems….. and then they sent you a replacement invertor free of charge. Was the machine still under warranty at this point?

Now that it’s been 2.5 years, I think you’re reaching a bit with your expectations.

And now you’re going to register on every wood working website and make 1 post in a sour grapes effort to defame Grizzly? I just hope you live up to the same standard of perfection that you seem so intent on holding a discount tool importer to.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View HGAlfrerd's profile

HGAlfrerd

9 posts in 243 days


#3 posted 04-19-2017 03:57 PM

Yes, I returned the item and got a refund, but that is not my point.
I just feel that they did a really bad job in designing the lathe in the beginning and then insisting to run the lathe with an underpowered inverter is just plain wrong.
The physical dimensions of the correct 2 HP inverter was not that different and I could have easily replaced it, but they just did not want to do that.
And yes, I try to make other customers aware of the fact that Grizzly is “cheating” their customers. I would not call this “sour grapes”, but if you are happy to buy a product advertised as a 1 1/2 HP lathe with a 2HP inverter only to find out that the inverter is only 1 HP. Then be my guest and continue buying from them. I on my side am especially disappointed with the fact that they insisted on the 1 HP inverter. One should also keep in mind that the inverter is the most expensive replacement part on that lathe, but the cost difference between the 1 HP inverter and the 2 HP inverter was barely a $60 difference.
On my side, I found a very lightly used lathe locally for less than $300 and I am happy with that, but I will stay away from Grizzly product in the future.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1856 posts in 2478 days


#4 posted 04-19-2017 04:31 PM

As an engineer, I can give an informal opinion.

All this is speculation, but I can see how it might happen. As engineers we often find that a part far exceeds it’s specs, so it is a temptation to use it in a more demanding application, but then the supplier is free to change the actual item and since the new version still meets the specs, they feel justified in doing that without notice, but if we have used it beyond it’s rated specs – because in our testing it worked great, we’re hozed.

For example, I have accidently run a microcontroller rated at 10 MIPS at 40 MIPs and had it work fine, but I would never design a product that used it that way.

-Paul

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

613 posts in 2188 days


#5 posted 04-19-2017 05:36 PM

Undersized equipment is not just an annoyance, it can also be a safety issue, especially when dealing with things like motors. Electricity is definitely something you don’t want to take chances with. Lastly, when I buy a piece of equipment I expect that it meets the published manufacturer’s specifications. I’m with HGAlfrerd on this.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Dutchy's profile

Dutchy

2568 posts in 2009 days


#6 posted 04-19-2017 05:45 PM

A sad story.

I have a own build lathe with a 400V 1500 W 750 Rpm motor. To use this motor on a 230 V circuit I ordered a 2.2 Kw inverter at Ebay in China for less than $ 150,—. It still works well after more than 3 years. It comes with documentation how to make the correct settings. There are more than 140 settings but I only had to change a few.

The reason I bought a bigger inverter (2.2 KW for a 1.5 KW motor) is because it was told to me to buy a bigger inverter to prevent problems.
.

-- https://dutchypatterns.com/

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

395 posts in 1810 days


#7 posted 04-19-2017 06:00 PM

Most VFDs are self protecting. In other words if the max current is reached, they will either reduce their output or turn off. There should also be settings in the VFD to program it with the motor parameters. If entered correctly, then the VFD will also protect the motor.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

691 posts in 656 days


#8 posted 04-19-2017 08:34 PM

I looked on the Grizzly website and I couldn’t find where they specified the inverter that came with the machine. Apparently, the lathe works, regardless of your personal opinion of what is an appropriate size. You are complaining about something you are speculating might happen in the future. I think I would reserve my public complaints until something actually goes wrong.

View REL's profile

REL

75 posts in 3497 days


#9 posted 04-19-2017 09:09 PM

I once purchased an electrical coil 12 gauge extension reel from Grizzly. I was not happy that the lead wired plug was only a 16 gauge. No argument, Grizzly took it back at their shipping cost (which they should).

The fact the rep seemed to understand my problem so easily , lead me to feel I was not the first customer to complain about the issue.

Was Grizzly knowingly selling defective goods?

Harbor Freight wouldn’t do that. Lower quality; yes.

-- REL, North Jersey

View HGAlfrerd's profile

HGAlfrerd

9 posts in 243 days


#10 posted 04-19-2017 09:17 PM

It is funny (or not) to see how many of the comments are about accepting wrong information advertised about a product. I assume all of those people are also OK with a company selling them a car which lists 150 HP engines when the engine only provides 100HP. Don’t complain about the company you can still drive the car and it might even be safer since you are not driving as fast as you would with a 150HP car.
On the other hand it is OK that your engine overheats and may break when you are towing a heavy trailer. Just wait and complain after you really needed to tow such a trailer.

It must be similar to what happens at the moment in our political system, where everyone just makes up their own facts and nobody cares about the truth.
I on my side insist that specs provided by a company for a product are met. I don’t make any compromise on that end!

View jbay's profile

jbay

1862 posts in 739 days


#11 posted 04-19-2017 09:57 PM


It is funny (or not) to see how many of the comments are about accepting wrong information advertised about a product. I assume all of those people are also OK with a company selling them a car which lists 150 HP engines when the engine only provides 100HP.

- HGAlfrerd

What’s funnier is that the car your driving probably delivers less hp than is stated!

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View HGAlfrerd's profile

HGAlfrerd

9 posts in 243 days


#12 posted 04-19-2017 10:40 PM

I would definitely hire a lawyer and sue the car company, if such a CHEAT is as obvious as it was with the Grizzly lathe.
However, as mentioned before some of the participants of this discussion thread are apparently happy to be cheated.
So, for those of you who don’t care too much about specifications, go and buy yourself a VW diesel.
You can claim that the car is a “clean diesel” and once you installed the corrected software you will have the lower performance. Be Happy!

View dpotter's profile

dpotter

7 posts in 674 days


#13 posted 04-20-2017 12:52 AM

Perhaps the best course of action would have been to return the lathe immediately when you were informed by Grizzly you would not be provided with an inverter that met your expectations. I am not clear about the timeline of your adventure, but that may have happened. If so, I am not sure why this is coming up 2.5 years later. If the lathe was just recently returned, I am not sure why you waited so long to return an item that did not meet its stated specs. If an item I purchase does not meet my expectations I simply return it.

Having said that, it is probably not a bad idea to remind people they should ensure the items they purchase meet the stated specifications.

-- Dave - York, Maine

View HGAlfrerd's profile

HGAlfrerd

9 posts in 243 days


#14 posted 04-20-2017 02:33 AM

Hello Dave
Yes, the lathe was returned “immediately” (after lengthy discussions with Grizzly asking for the correct 2HP inverter) and I got my refund. Nevertheless, I still had all of the trouble of setting it up as well as preparing it for the return shipment.
But as you said, I wanted to make everyone aware of my experience. 2 years ago when all of this started, I had send my complaint (first posting) to the Better Business Bureau, but since Grizzly is not registered with them, nothing come out of that.
Just recently I was cleaning up my computer and came across this previous document and I thought it would be a good idea to post it (again). What did I know that so many readers would actually take side with the company. I am absolutely astonished about those comments.

View jbay's profile

jbay

1862 posts in 739 days


#15 posted 04-20-2017 02:51 AM

I don’t think so many readers are taking sides with the company as much as they are with somebody joining a forum to complain about something that happened over 2 years ago.

Then you give 3 possible solutions like it is still ongoing.
Your asking for compensation in the way of a discount.
(which if you were so dissatisfied, I don’t know why you would buy from them again)

Hokie way of handling your business IMO!

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

showing 1 through 15 of 31 comments

Have your say...

You must be signed in to post the comments.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com